is LabVIEW the right language for my setup?

[whbit]

I'm new at LabVIEW, as the following inquiry will make glaringly obvious.
I am upgrading and old system that is used for tracking a laser beam scanned through a lens to find the entrance and exit slopes of the beam. In reading up on LabVIEW and its brethren (specifically NI Vision and NI Motion Control) I feel like all of the components of what I need to do would be available to me. These essentially being:
a) controlling the stepper motors to move in x and y to predetermined points on the lens
b) acquiring images from two cameras simultaneously
c) tracing and recording the laser beam seen in the image, to be able to determine its slope at in any given frame
d) using edge detection to outline the surface of the lens
e) using a conversion factor to easily determine the actual scale of the images
 
Once I have installed LabVIEW and am on my way, I feel like the above tasks would not be too difficult to execute. However, I am most worried about the compatibility of my cameras with the entire NI world. They are Pulnix TM-1327 GigE cameras, and are currently acquiring footage through the Jai Cam2net program.
So my real question is: Will I be able to connect these cameras dirtectly to be controlled by the LabVIEW system? If not, is there a way to integrate a different vision acquisition system with LabVIEW and NI Motion Control, and susequently NI Vision? Or would it be better for me to just acquire the images through the Jai software and then analyze them using a separate characteristic identification program, while controlling the steppers with C code or something?
 
Any answers, suggestions or advice would be more than welcome.
Thanks,
W
 
p.s. on a related note, I was just looking through the Cam2net folders on my system's computer, and found this text file in the Cam2net > Code Samples > Labview folder:
Copyright (c) 2006, Pleora Technologies Inc., All rights reserved.                            ====================                               LabView sample                            ====================This sample illustrates how to connect to an IP engine from LabView usingthe COM objects1. IntroductionThis sample shows how to: * Use the IP Engine SDK COM objects in LabView2. Pre-conditionsThis tutorial assumes that: * You are familiar with LabView * You are familiar with the IP Engine SDK COM objects * You know how to call COM from LabView * You have a config.xml file in your working directory3. DescriptionThis sample program is a LabView version of the sample application.It does load the configuration from an xml file, fills in the CyConfigobject, and connects to the IP engine through a CyGrabber object withthe data in the CyConfig object.It then starts the image acquisition and displays the images in aCyDisplayEx ActiveX component instance.
 
Will this help me with my above concerns?
 
 

[whbit]

NH,
  no problem...i wasn't exprecting that the NI forum would be able to extend into the realms of Cam2Net, but i thought i'd try. However, there is something I think you might be able to hlep me with. After installing LabVIEW 8.5 on my computer, the cameras I was using with such carefree jubilance through Cam2Net have stopped being able to connect to the software. The Cam2Net program now crashes any time I try to connect to the cameras, and occasionally heeds warnings of "subnets do not match!". Aftter looking into the problem, and noticing that the problem seems to have coincided with the installation of LabVIEW, my only thought is that perhaps LabVIEW installs its own driver for the GigE interface, and that is conflicting with the Cam2Net software. 
  any idea on whether this is true, and how to get around it if it is?
W

[whbit]

Thanks for the advice.
When I contacted my camera-literate associate and asked him about getting the cameras working with LabVIEW, he asked me if i wanted to us the NI iPort driver or the Genicam drivert to connect to the cameras. Apparently, using the Genicam requires upgrading the firmware, and using the iPort doesn't. What are your thoughts on this? Will either of these work for what i'm trying to accomplish?
thanks again in advance,
W

[whbit]

hello again!
     after being sidetracked by a few other projects, i reloaded windows on my computer, and things seem to be working out way way better. i managed to upgrade the firmware on the cameras so that they are GigE Vision compliant, and managed to get the IMAQdx program to recognize that the cameras are plugged in. My only issue, one that i hope you will be able to help with, is that once i get into the Measurement & Automation Explorer, the acquisition field is blank, and when i try to change any parameters (packet size, region of interest, timeout, etc.) a warning comes up that says "Error 0xBFF69012 Attribute Value is Out of Range" and i can't seem to find anything in the help section, or online to tell me what to do to change this. I assume, or pray rather, that there is a simple solution to this problem, and maybe you know it!
  i'd love to install LabVIEW and start programming the system ASAP, so if you ahve any pointers they will be very helpful.
cheers,
W

[N_Holmes]

Dear W, It looks as if this might still be a problem with the XML file that the camera is generating. Try disconnecting your camera, and then deleting the "Data" folder, located at C:\Documents and Settings\All Users\Documents\National Instruments\NI-IMAQdx. Make a backup first and move it somewhere else, such as the desktop. Once the folder is deleted reconnect your camera and see if you can use it in MAX. Your camera should generate a new XML file from it's firmware. If this doesn't work, I would recommend running the Camera Validator to see if specific attributes are causing the problem. Here is the procedure for using the Camera Validator: - Select Start»Run to bring up the Run dialog.
- Type in the following command: "<National Instruments>\NI-IMAQdx\Utility\CameraValidator.exe" /ATTRIBUTES where
<National Instruments> is the installed directory of your
National Instruments software, typically "C:\Program Files\National
Instruments".
- CameraValidator.exe will create
an attribute report for each camera. You can find this report in the
same folder as CameraValidator.exe. This report validates each
attribute in the XML file. Check if any attribute has failed any of the
steps. Then contact the camera manufacturer for an updated XML file or
camera firmware to correct this attribute.
Hopefully this test should narrow down the problem and then you can get the expected values from Pulnix for the TM 1327-GE.Best Regards,~Nate

[whbit]

Nate,
   thanks again for your time and helpful suggestions. unfortunately, i tried your first idea, and everything ended up exactly the same as before. then i tried to do the camera validation step, but apparently i don't have that .exe file anywhere. can i download it? it's frustrating to be so close but so far. I'd like to install LabVIEW asap, and am unsure if it would be a bad idea to do so before i have the camera(s) working properly on their own. what do you think?cheers,
W

[N_Holmes]

Dear W, The Camera Validator is an executable that began shipping with the Vision Acquisition Software 8.2.1, and should be located in the  C:\Program Files\National Instruments\ni-imaqdx\Utility directory. The Vision Acquisition Software contains the drivers needed to acquire from cameras over the various buses available. Here is a link to the download page on ni.com where you can see the contents and the readme:Vision Acquisition Software 8.5.1 - Windows 2000/vista x64/Vista x86/XPhttp://joule.ni.com/nidu/cds/view/p/id/960/lang/enDo you have an earlier version of the Vision Acquisition Software than 8.2.1?You should have no problems installing LabVIEW now, and then continuing to troubleshoot your cameras after LabVIEW is installed. You can update or re-install drivers, such as IMAQdx, and it should not adversely affect LabVIEW.I hope this helps!Best Regards,~Nate

[whbit]

Nate,
   Sorry for the late reply, again a long period of silence due to the multiple-projects-on-the-go syndrome. I have the version 8.2.1 of the NI Vision Acquisition Software, but my NI-IMAQdx folder in Program Files\National Instruments does not have a Utility folder in it. I searched the entire National Istruments folder for "Validator" and found nothing of any use. Is there any way that I can get just the Camera Validator from NI? Or possibly any other way that i could find out what the issues with the camera are?
Cheers, and thanks again
L

[N_Holmes]

Dear W, No problem, I'm suffering from that myself these days!The Camera Validator and information about it's use is available through the following KnowledgeBase:Compatibility Test for IEEE-1394 and GigE Cameras with NI-IMAQdx<a href="http://digital.ni.com/public.nsf/allkb/EBE3BBBEF4FEA92786257225006FF242?OpenDocument" target="_blank">http://digital.ni.com/public.nsf/allkb/EBE3BBBEF4FEA92786257225006FF242?OpenDocument</a> Please let me know how things go, and if you have any trouble with the Camera Validator.Cheers!~Nate

[whbit]

Nate,
&nbsp; Thanks again for poiting me in the right direction. I realized that i had forgotten to install the high performance GigE Vision Driver for my Intel Pro/1000 NIC, and once i did that things changed a little. I can now "grab" images, but the screen is constantly black, and when i save the images they come out as a completely grey screen. But i don't get the insant errors anymore...I got the validator working and ran it on my camera. It passed all the Mono8 and Mono10 tests and then failed the Mono10packed test with the result: "FAIL: Error Code = 0xBFF69008: Not implemented yet". I'm not sure what this means, but i imagine i just have to upgrade something else in this software, judging by the change that the High Performance Driver made.
&nbsp;&nbsp; Let me know what you think.
Cheers,
L

[N_Holmes]

Dear L (didn't notice the change right away), There are a couple of things that you can do to troubleshoot your GigE Camera, and this article does a good job of explaining them:Troubleshooting GigE Vision Cameras<a href="http://zone.ni.com/devzone/cda/tut/p/id/5846" target="_blank">http://zone.ni.com/devzone/cda/tut/p/id/5846</a> Also make sure to look at the 'Acquiring from GigE Vision Camears with Vision Acquisition Software' links at the bottom of the article. Please let me know if you are still having problems after following the steps outlined in the above articles. Best Regards,~Nate

[whbit]

Nate,
&nbsp;&nbsp; I had forgotten about that troubleshooting page, as when i found it i wasn't even close to getting the camera to be recognized in MAX, so it was useless at that time. So thanks for that. This morning i tried to connect to the camera and for the first time it gave me the notice "unable to set attribute" error. i restarted the computer and it connected fine (or to the point it was at yesterday, anyway). however, when i was looking over the troubleshooting page i found a section about addressing that problem. it gets you to run cameravalidator.exe/ATTRIBUTES to find the attributes that are causing the errors. unfortunately, when i ran the cameravalidator.exe/ATTRIBUTES it came up with this error almost immediately:
"FAIL: Error Code = 0xBFF69011: Unable to get attribute."
In the troubleshooting section it tells you to get the attributes that are causing the problem and to contact the camera vendor for a new and updated version of the camera firmware. I have updated the firmware on this camera since i got it to make it compatible with gigE vision, so i feel like this would not be the route i should take. It's weird because i could get a full report with all the passes and fails yesterday, and now all it does is say "unable to get attribute"...
any ideas?
L

[N_Holmes]

Dear L, Can you attach the reports that were generated when you ran the camera file generator in both the case where it ran and passed some of the tests, and the case where it failed almost immediately?Is there a software utility available through Pulnix that you could use to test your camera? If it is available, I am interested to see if your camera functions with it. I am unsure what could be causing the change in behavior from one day to the next, but we are definitely still having camera file/camera firmware issues here. Is it possible for you to contact Pulnix to see what their take is on the most recent firmware available for your camera?Best Regards,~Nate

[whbit]

Nate,
&nbsp;&nbsp; thanks again. I contacted Pulnix, and am in the midst of a correspondence with them about how to try to figure this out. In the meantime, i should let you know that the camera is back to not failing the tests right away. I have attached the report that it most recently generated, as i forgot to move the one where it failed right away out of the folder, so it was automatically saved over. Let me know if you have any other ideas, they are always more than welcomed.
Cheers,
L


May 7 08.xlsx:
http://forums.ni.com/attachments/ni/170/322219/1/May 7 08.xlsx

[Ravens Fan]

Please don't post files&nbsp;with .xlsx extension.&nbsp; Most people don't have the program needed to open that type of file.

[whbit]

sorry about that. forgot that i was using office 07
here's a more accessible version
&nbsp;


May 7 08.xls:
http://forums.ni.com/attachments/ni/170/323938/1/May 7 08.xls

[Soosh]

Hi Whbit,
So did you ever figure this one out? From reviewing the past posts, you should be able to upgrade the camera to get it working correctly with Labview.
Cheers,Matt

[whbit]

actually, i have been out of the office for the past two months and just got back in. i've been working on numerous other projects, and so this one has taken a back seat. however, if you have any ideas on how i might be able to get this all working, i would loooooooooove to hear them.
any ideas?
cheers
w